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Copyright 2003
This thing really works!



Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this
continent a new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the
proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged
 in a great civil war, testing whether that nation or any nation so
conceived and so dedicated can long endure. We are met on a
great battlefield of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion
 of that field as a final resting-place for those who here gave their
lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and
proper that we should do this. But in a larger sense, we cannot
dedicate, we cannot consecrate, we cannot hallow this ground.
The brave men, living and dead who struggled here have con-
secrated it far above our poor power to add or detract.

The world will little note nor long remember what we say here,
but it can never forget what they did here.

It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished
work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced.
 It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining
 before us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion
 to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--
that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain,
 that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not
perish from the earth.

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A Project Gutenberg of Australia Etext  Title: Nineteen eighty-four Author:George Orwell (pseudonym of Eric Blair)
 (1903-1950) Etext No.:  0100021.txt Edition:    1 Language:   English This etext was produced by Col Choat colchoat@yahoo.com.au  Corrected EDITIONS of our etexts get a new NUMBER, eg 0100012.txt
 VERSIONS based on separate sources get new LETTER, eg 0100011a.txt
ISBN 0451524934 "Big Brother is Watching You" "1984": "Novel published in 1949 as a warning about the menaces of totalitarianism. The novel is set in an imaginary future world that is dominated by three perpetually warring totalitarian police states. The book's hero, Winston Smith, is a minor party functionary in one of these states. His longing for truth and decency leads him to secretly rebel against the government. Smith has a love affair with a like-minded woman, but they are both arrested by the Thought Police. The ensuing imprisonment, torture, and reeducation of Smith are intended not merely to break him physically or make him submit but to root out his independent mental existence and his spiritual dignity. Orwell's warning of the dangers of totalitarianism made a deep impression on his contemporaries and upon subsequent readers, and the book's title and many of its coinages, such as NEWSPEAK, became bywords for modern political abuses." -- Merriam-Webster Encyclopedia of Literature, April 1, 1995 ISBN 0877790426
Vocabulary words: NewSpeak, DoubleThink, ThoughtCrime

Available at Project Gutenberg (for Commonwealth-based readers, not those from the US)

A book without hope or a challenge to Reason? -- MartinNoutch

[Some comments, from a religious perspective, moved to NineteenEightyFourReligiousPerspective.]

I heard that George Orwell considered some variations of 1984. All money should be marked so that anything could be traced back and men should be made to carry devices so that their position would be known any time. It seemed so unrealistic that he dropped these ideas (did he? It's such along time since I read his book!). Now they call these "credit card" and "mobile phone" (some countries in Europe: "Handy"). Just a thought. -- HelmutLeitner

[ I will try this once more the original title given to the book 1984 was 1948 it was altered by the publisher ,editor I was told this and other facts as a  teen and lived my life accordingly although I have never seen
any proof  I never thought much about it one way or the other until now that I obsess about Hitler and Nazism being much worse than Big Brother as God (a Puratanical Victorian) and then It was clear that Orwell or more precisely the author was flexible Title: Nineteen eighty-four Author: George Orwell (pseudonym of Eric Blair) the book was to serve its purpose that of obscuring into tidy myth and satisfying emotionalism the true horror of WW2.

And the complicit power elites which are even today claiming there "divine right of kings" and use a global  class of pencil neck's and plutocrats to rule by default.  

It is further curious that it is thought of as "normal" WE push the young into wars to kill and it is considered criminal to draft them into medical school and force them to learn to heal as Fidel Castro has done... ED]

 Copyright 2003
Now the :   Double Speak

Did you mean: DoubleSpeak

Searched the web for DoubleSpeak .
Results 1 - 10 of about 44,600. Search took 0.14 seconds.

Searched the web for CRIMETHINK. .
Results 1 - 10 of about 2,120. Search took 0.11 seconds.

Did you mean: NEWSPEAK

Searched the web for NEWSPEAK.
Results 1 - 10 of about 63,800. Search took 0.08 seconds.
Description: Commentary on current events and political statements.
Category: News > Satire

[ More results from www.scn.org ]

Adolf Hitler Mao Zedong Josef Stalin Saddam Hussein
A 21st Century Dictator?? spacer, contact Newspeak.

... language of the Party. Each successive edition of the Newspeak Dictionary
has fewer words than its predecessor. ... Contact Newspeak.

[ More results from www.newspeak.com ]

Includes info on the book and movie, a dictionary of Newspeak and politically
incorrect speech. ... Propaganda George Orwell Newspeak 1984. ...

... keywords. Nineteen-Eighty-Four(1984), a novel by George Orwell, featured
a politically correct language called newspeak. thought ...

 Did you mean:NEW SPEAK

Searched the web for NEW SPEAK.
Results 1 - 10 of about 10,100,000. Search took 0.12 seconds

New Speak. Banning the use of certain words or requiring the use of
new ones. Also legislating to revise the meanings of old words. ...
c2.com/cgi/wiki?NewSpeak -  - Nov 18, 2003

Glossary of New Speak. acupuncture (n): A modern day bed of nails.
affirmation (n): Words or sentences newageoholics say when they ...


Search for NewSpeak http://c2.com/cgi/fullSearch [11/17/2003 11:38:00 PM]


Thus it follows... Ed.
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They say men of power move little, they dont have to.

Reviews the "ORIBE" exhibition at the Metropolitan Museum
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2003 11:29:06 -0500
From:  Amir Bey <abey@mindspring.com>
To: abey@mindspring.com


  Omissions at the Met

  Special by Amir Bey,Copyright 2003
    Turning Point: Oribe and the Arts of Sixteenth-Century Japan, an exhibition of Japanese screens, ceramics,
  scrolls, on-site installations that include a fountain by Isamu Noguchi, and other fine artifacts from the
  Momoyama period (1573-1615) is being held at New York's Metropolitan Museum.  Oribe is derived from the
  warlord Furuta Oribe, 1543/44-1615, whose influence guided an innovative period of brilliant ceramic works that
  explored the beauty of irregularity, concepts that are now identified with his name.  Indeed, the Momoyama
  period ended with Oribe's seppuku (forced suicide), for suspected treason against the shogun.  The information
  given about the ceramic pieces, installations, and accessories used in tea ceremonies, as well as the paintings
  that reached an important stage during the Momoyama period is enlightening.  This writer especially enjoyed
  seeing the two scrolls illustrating stories from The Tale of Genji. The many fine folding screens from that period
  include some from the following Edo period (1615-1868), as well as several screens from the last century that
  directly incorporated elements such as kimonos from the Momoyama period.  
      Hmm...those screens.  I noticed many black men are depicted.  After examining the notes unavoidable
  questions arose.  What was more noticeable than their presence in the screens was their omission by the
  curator, Miyeko Murase, in the notes that accompanied each screen. There were four screens that feature
  people of African descent: "Departure of the Nanbans" (Nanbanjin, or "southern barbarians", a name bestowed
  on Europeans), by Kano Naizen 1570-1616; and two double-screens titled "Arrival of the Nanbans", from the
  Edo period; and "Scenes In and Around the Capital" (Rakuchu-rakugaizu), attributed to Kano Takanobu.  The
  Africans are engaged in servile activities such as waving fans, holding and riding horses, rowing and pulling
  boats ashore, carrying bundles -and people.  One scene portrayed several blacks in a house appearing to count
  money, with an abacus nearby.  There was no attempt by the exhibition to hide the Africans' presence; the
  catalogue offered the same textual invisibility, yet their presence is more conspicuous due to enlarged details
  from the screens that focused on them.  Is it possible that what black people do, even the most mundane
  activities, are to be seen but not put into a constructive context?  This is the case in "Scenes In and Around
  the Capital".  The notes say, "Some Nanbans (Europeans) attract the attention of women and children nearby."
  Dear reader, the image consists of a black man holding a fan over a white man's head.  Certainly they weren't
  both Europeans!  
      Interestingly, the notes twice point out that the Nanban women included in the screens were fictional, since
  European women did not travel on those early voyages to Japan.  Why comment on the presence of people who
  did not exist, yet avoid any description of those who did visit Japan, and who, judging from their numerous
  depictions in the screens, made vivid impressions on the Japanese artists?  The Nanban women were fancifully
  rendered in the fashion that Japanese artists painted Chinese women then, which was indicative of their idea of
  "foreign" women.  In contrast, the black men were realistically shown in ways consistent with how blacks would
  have traveled and interacted with Portuguese traders and missionaries at that time.  
      These omissions caused me to speculate about the blacks.  Were they: Moors from the Spanish peninsula;
  Africans from present-day Cape Verde Islands, Mozambique or Angola, which were former Portuguese colonies;
  or West Africans taken in as slaves directly from the coast or from the Americas, possibly Brazil?  With the
  means at her disposal, the curator was capable of making more than an educated guess as to their origins and
  functions, and could have recited anecdotes about their reception in Japan.  

      Since the curator was out of town at this writing, The Holler! was unable to pose these questions to her.  

  It can be argued that 16th and 17th century Japanese considered both blacks and whites Nanbanjin.
Nevertheless, throwing some light on the Africans accompanying the Portuguese would have broadened the
  perspective of an absorbing exhibition.

      Turning Point: Oribe and the Arts of Sixteenth-Century Japan can be viewed through January 11, 2004.
  The attached image is a detail from "Arrival of the Nanbans", Edo Period (1615-1868), from the Mary and
  Jackson Burke Foundation.

                               ARRIVAL OF THE NANBANJIN.JPG

Subject: Fwd: THE NEW TIMES HOLLER! Metropolitan Museum
 update Date:  Mon, 01 Dec 2003 11:19:38 -0500
   From:   Amir Bey <abey@mindspring.com> To: abey@mindspring.com

  Culture Desk  Special for the NEW TIMES HOLLER!
By Amir Bey Dec 1, 2003
  Miyeko Murase, the curator of the Turning Point: Oribe and the Arts of Sixteenth-
Century Japan exhibition responded to the HOLLER!'s review of  the exhibit by calling
the writer.  Her explanations for the omission of any information concerning the people of
apparent African descent depicted  in the four folding screens of the Nanbanjin voyages
(Nanbanjin - Southern barbarians, which alludes to foreigners who were permitted to land
  and trade in the southern portion of Japan) was that 1: There wasn't enough space in the
 notes or the catalogue and every detail of the screens  could not be commented on; and
 2: It was common knowledge that dark - skinned people accompanied the Portuguese,
so their presence in the  screens was not unusual, and why was the writer surprised?  
She suggested that those people may not have been Africans but of Indian  descent,
since the Portuguese also had colonies in that region.  She also posed the question of how should those people be depicted, as  Africans, dark-skinned people, or Indians?
 She informed the writer that she had recently attended a seminar in Portugal that did not
mention the  identities of people other than Portuguese went on those voyages.  

 The writer responded to those points by saying 1: Even one sentence alluding to the
presence of the darker-hued people would have been better  than none, especially since
 other details were included; and 2: Those kinds of omissions were not surprising but
typical of many institutions.  THE  HOLLER!'s position is that whether African or Indian,
 the variety of activities and the quantity of depictions of those people warranted some  
kind of mention.  Even though they were not mentioned in the seminar Dr. Murase
attended, if researched, the Portuguese kept thorough records  of the voyages in
question and some information on the cargo and the people on those ships exists and
 is accessible.  Dr. Murase asked the  writer how would he describe those voyagers?
 Since the writer does not think they were Indians, judging by the manner in which their
features  were portrayed, he suggested Africans, or any allusion to their existence by
describing the activities they were engaged in, and certainly not as   Europeans, which
 is how they were described in one of the notes.  The curator pointed out that the
Japanese of those times viewed the  Europeans and the Africans as Nanbanjin.
Nevertheless, THE HOLLER! feels that the artists who painted the screens made
visual distinctions  between the them and did not omit those Africans (or Indians),
and thus they should not be omitted in the notes.  In addition, while the screens  are from an era far removed from present-day sensibilities and realities, the
curator and the Metropolitan Museum is not.

THE HOLLER! appreciated the efforts of the curator to reach us by phone
and for engaging in a constructive dialogue.
" One of the most powerful motives that  attracts people to science & art is the longing to escape from every day life." Einste

Don Wilde wrote:

  I didn't write this one, but it's a good reason to say hi! :D

  The October 10, 1987 Orlando Sentinel carried an Associated Press story on
  page A-3 which began, "TACOMA, Wash - A boy was penned in a coffin-sized box
  for two years because his step-grandmother feared he was brain-damaged, and
  when he emerged he was amazed to learn that not all children are shut up in
  the same way, prosecutors said Friday."

  The kid spent two years in a box. Did he scream to get out? No. Did he feel
  abused? Apparently not. Was he unhappy? The news item gives no hint that he
  was. He illustrates, literally, the difficulty of "thinking outside the

  The main problem, of course, wasn't the box. It wasn't even locked. The main
  problem was in the boy's head. He stayed in the box because he was convinced
  that his situation was right and proper.

  We're all bundles of little boxes of unexamined beliefs about what's right
  and proper.

  Lots of those boxes have to do with schooling.

  BOX: There's such a thing as a "standard" 6-year-old, 9-year-old,
  12-year-old. Once this idea is accepted, putting all kids of the same age
  into slots called "First Grade," "Second Grade" and so on seems to make good
  sense. And, once that idea is accepted, grade promotion and retention seem
  to make good sense.

  BOX: Kids won't learn the multiplication tables (or anything else) unless
  they're threatened with low grades or promised good ones. Few believe that
  the satisfaction that comes from doing quality work is a more powerful and
  lasting motivator than rewards and punishments, threats and promises.

  BOX: Everything of importance can be measured. Once this proposition is
  accepted, that which can't be measured--things like curiosity,
  determination, complex thinking, enthusiasm, intellectual flexibility,
  creativity, teamwork, a life-long love of learning-stop being important.

  BOX: Monster schools are an efficient, or at least fiscally necessary,
  thing. (However, on this one, there's a bit of hope for out-of-the-box
  thinkers. Americans respect money and admire those who make it. Bill Gates
  has a lot of money. That he's spending many millions of it in states willing
  to experiment with high schools enrolling no more than 400 students just
  might prod a few school boards to join him outside that particular box.)

  That's barely the beginning of a list of the mental boxes that keep
  America's schools stuck in unexamined ruts. School building location and
  design, textbooks, staffing, lines of authority, funding, schedules, student
  roles, the curriculum, sports, extra-curricular activities, community
  involvement-these, for most people, are neatly boxed arrangements and the
  lids are closed.

  There are endless opportunities for fresh thinking in education, but rarely
  is it welcome. Much of the resistance stems from educator worries about
  negative public reaction. I used to joke with school principals with whom I
  worked about their timidity, their fear of the telephone call from a parent
  or (far worse) from a newspaper reporter. Many would have loved to adopt
  innovations they knew were solidly researched and would benefit students,
  but they went to their retirement dinners maintaining the status quo.

  There is, for example, a mountain of research about the long-range
  counter-productivity of assigning letter grades. In Punished By Rewards--The
  Trouble with Gold Stars, Incentive Plans, A's, Praise, and Other Bribes,
  Alfie Kohn's research reference citations run to 31 pages of fine print. But
  a principal who pointed to that research and advocated ending the
  traditional A through F grading system would face a school board meeting
  packed with outraged citizens.

  And face it alone. No delegation of citizens would commend her or him for
  going where the research leads. No newspaper editorial board would suggest
  to readers that the use of extrinsic motivators might explain why so few
  students leave school with a genuine love of learning. No panel of business
  leaders would make the rounds of civic clubs pointing out that the principal
  was attempting to bring modern business management principles to bear to
  motivate students more effectively.

  I used to believe that it took smarts to think outside the box. I've come to
  believe that it isn't primarily a matter of intellect but of emotion. The
  protesters at that school board meeting will very likely be smarter and
  better educated than the average citizen. But their demand that the
  principal be disciplined or fired won't be a product of their having used
  their heads to thoroughly examine the evidence and study the research. It'll
  come from their emotional attachment to the intellectual box they're in.

  Don Wilde  ---------> Silver Lynx <----------  Raising the Trajectory of Human Development http://www.Silver-Lynx.com


How to use the internet
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The Voting-Machine Industrial Complex
Demonstration Democracy
Copyright 2003 By BOB FITRAKIS
During the Cold War, the CIA, in the words of long-time agent Ralph McGehee, practiced the art of "deadly deceits." Throughout the Third World, the secret spy agency engaged in covert operations, blatant acts of economic destabilization and wanton acts of mass violence.
In the 1970s, Idaho Senator Frank Church's investigatory committee established that the CIA also engaged in so-called "benign" operations including rigging elections. The agency used the term "demonstration elections"--elections that are superficially democratic but the results manipulated by the CIA.
The Company did everything from stuffing ballot boxes, creating political parties, merging smaller political parties into large coalitions as in Uno in Nicaragua, paying death squads to intimidate voters and the occasional use of computer fraud. In the mid-80s, the Reagan and Bush administration used a computer to help their "man in Panama" and CIA asset Manuel Noriega gain electoral support; they backed dictator Ferdinand Marcos when he brought in the pre-programmed election tapes in the middle of an election to turn his sure defeat into a fixed victory. The people of the Philippines didn't accept the computer results as credible, but Reagan and Bush argued it was necessary to preserve our "traditional" relationship with the brutal dictator. Remember, his political opponent, Senator Aquino was shot to death after disembarking from an airplane to run against Marcos.http://www.inq7.net/opi/2003/nov/20/opi_editorial-1.htm

Now that we have the son of the former CIA director as President, we should recognize that the more reprehensible tactics of the CIA have been brought home
with the Bush dynasty.

What George Bush's energy friends from Texas, including Enron, did to the California economy through the massive "mega-watt" laundering of energy should be viewed as just another economic destabilization of an enemy regime.

In the Houston area, two Republican U.S. representatives were declared winners in the last election until it was discovered that the results were caused by a "faulty" and Republican-friendly microchip. When the proper chip was installed in the computerized voting machine the correct results were revealed: two Democratic victories.

The 2000 Florida election included all of the signs of a Third World CIA demonstration election.
 Bizarrely constructed butterfly ballots, obscure third parties receiving unexplained and unfathomable votes and heavily Jewish areas voting unexpectedly for right-wing nationalistic anti-Semitic candidates like Pat Buchanan.

Remember that the exit polls predicted that Gore would win. Only when the psych-ops operation at Fox News changed that call did some people begin to believe in the myth of the Bush victory.

What began as covert operations in the Third World are now overt practices by the Bush administration in the United States.

Take for example the August 14 letter from Walden O'Dell, Chief Executive of Diebold, Inc., pledging that he is "committed to helping Ohio deliver its votes to the President next year." Diebold is one of three finalists currently seeking $100 million contract with the state of Ohio to provide computerized voting machines for the 2004 elections. Diebold has worked on its computers with Battelle, a well-established collaborator with the U.S. military and CIA.

 Computer scientists from John Hopkins indicated that it would be relatively easy to hack into and manipulate the computer voting results in these machines.

The Seattle Times ran a feature story on Diebold in their August 21 edition. Bev Harris, a Seattle-area public relations company owner, recently uncovered "some 4000 files that included user manuals, source code and an executable files for voting machines made by Diebold, a corporation based in North Canton, Ohio."
Jason Leopold recently wrote a revealing article on this issue that you can read here. A detailed anaylsis of the flaws in Diebold's electronic voting machines can be found at www.scoop.co.nz.

So, what do we have here other than the obvious denial by mainstream America?

We've got a CIA family, their corporate supporters working with CIA contractors at Battelle in order to bring flawed electronic voting to the U.S. with no paper trails and questionable exit polls. Recall that Battelle was also the contractor for Voter News Service (VNS) and failed to produce exit polls for the 2002 Congressional election.

Factor in the reality that, out of 435 Congressional districts in the U.S., only 39, or 9%, are actually competitive (when major party candidates won with less than 55% of the vote). Under our political system, also, the vast majority of Congressional seats are gerrymandered as "safe" or noncompetitive districts by the party that controls the state government. Eleven Texas Democrats are hiding out in New Mexico in hopes of thwarting another round of Republican district-rigging in their state. So little democracy is actually left.

Over the years, well-known and respected political theorists and leaders have warned of the rise of authoritarianism.

 In the 50s, U.S. President Eisenhower warned of the "military-industrial complex." C. Wright Mills detailed the "power elite"--the convergence of the
 top levels of the military, corporations and governmental leaders during the
 Cold War.

In the 60s, Herbert Marcuse, who worked for the Office of Strategic Services (OSS) in WWII, pointed out that Americans' inability to think critically was making us a "one-dimensional" society with an authoritarian culture.

 In the 70s, political scientists like William Domhoff and Thomas Dye began to document empirically the undemocratic and elitist nature of the U.S. political system.

 In the 80s, Bertrand Gross warned of the rise of "friendly fascism."

 In the 90s, William Grieder documented that the U.S. had the best democracy money can buy and asked the question, "Who will tell the people?"

But the most damning and lasting testimony that foretold the rise of America's new authoritarian demonstration democracy are still the massive volumes produced by the Church Committee. Back in the late 70s, the Agency's shadowy hands were all over the Idaho ABC Committee (Anybody but Church).

Results of the 1973 Church Committee Hearings, on CIA misdeeds, and
the 1984 Iran/Contra Hearings.... "Our Presidents should not ...

 gave the Bush clan and their friends in the CIA the opportunity to field test whether or not you can blatantly steal an election in the U.S. just like Panama
 or the Philippines.

 The 9-11 attacks provided Bush, Jr. with the authority to push U.S. society massively to the right and pursue militarism and imperialism.

 It also allowed Bush to test market neo-Nazi-style mass propaganda to the American public.

The voting machines are simply the final nail in the people's coffin.
The comatose electorate rests silently as the hammer of authoritarianism falls.

Bob Fitrakis is a professor at Columbus State Community College and an editor of the Free Press.
Weekend Edition Features for Sept. 1 / 7, 2003

Take a look for yourself at http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.html.
Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money! Money!

{What did your Presidents Grandfather do during WW2?}

- Adapted from Ramsey Clark's address to the half a million demonstrators at the January 18th National March on Washington  to
  Stop the War on Iraq organized by International A.N.S.W.E.R. (Act Now to Stop War & End Racism).
                              Click this     mkultra+cheney+rumsfeld
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Connection     Connection      Connection     Connection     Connection     Connection      Connection     Connection
American Holocaust Pestilence and Genocide No Excuse ! Except Filling the Void!

This is better ... Accounting...
  FYI an important FYI may result Thank you ...
Subject: -"our friends the Saudis" - FYI Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:32:26 -0500  From: L. To: (Recipient list suppressed)
Saudi Arabia and Militants: The Risky Road of Negotiations November 17, 2003 1521 GMTStratfor.com

A top Saudi scholar recently hinted that a delegation of scholars would meet with  de facto Saudi  ruler Crown Prince Abdullah to discuss their role as mediators in possible negotiations between the Saudi  government and al  Qaeda. The fact that Riyadh has considered negotiations with al Qaeda speaks  volumes about   the difficulties it faces with growing Islamist militancy in the kingdom -- and also highlights the complex configuration of relationships between the regime, the ulema and the militants.


 Safar al-Hawali, a leading Wahhabi scholar in Saudi Arabia, recently hinted that
 Crown Prince  Abdullah was planning to meet with a group of 40 scholars in Mecca to discuss their role as mediators in  dialogue with al Qaeda militants. Although the official Saudi Press agency quoted an unnamed official  denying that   Riyadh sought such  dialogue, the Saudi-owned al-Hayat daily reported that the meetings were to be held Nov.  14-17 -- close on the heels of a Nov. 9 car bombing in Riyadh that killed 17 people and wounded 122 others,  including Arabs.

  If al-Hawali's statement is accurate, it underscores the magnitude of the problems  facing the  Saudi monarchy:  Militancy in the kingdom has grown
to such a level that the government realizes it cannot resort  to a harsh crackdown without further eroding its own public support. Negotiations with
al Qaeda are an alternative in the quest to defang the militant group, but a risky one that likely will backfire against  the House of  Saud in several significant ways.

 First and foremost, the offer of dialogue would only embolden al Qaeda,
 which stands to gain  little from negotiations. Because the objective of the militant Islamist group is to oust the House of Saud  from power, it is not interested
 in seeking a negotiated settlement. In al Qaeda's eyes, any offer of dialogue from Riyadh would appear -- with good reason -- to be a sign of weakness.

  Riyadh's readiness to negotiate with the militants in fact is a sign that the
  monarchy is beginning to  buckle under the pressure mounted by the militant opposition. It also would serve as a green light to the moderate opposition, which might view this as an opportune time to press forward with peaceful demonstrations --  such as those that took place in Riyadh and elsewhere in October.

  As the situation currently stands, al Qaeda and the monarchy are locked into
a  binary orbit: The   militant group is not in a position to oust the royal family, but the House of Saud realizes it cannot  contain al Qaeda through the use
of force alone. More essentially, Riyadh at this stage is seeking to prevent
the militants from  making inroads into its security apparatus and in halting further attacks -- which would explain why it is willing to  have the ulema*
serve as intermediaries; the government knows the religious establishment
has some pull  with the jihadists.

  Although the offer of a mediating role may signal that Riyadh is trying to win back the support of  the ulema class -- with whom it has been at odds over U.S. demands to reform the radical religious curriculum within the state's educational system -- this maneuver too could backfire. Whatever its reasons for  getting the  ulema involved in negotiations, the House of Saud in doing so will bring the religious authorities back as a  reinvigorated political force, further weakening its own domestic position.

  From a foreign policy standpoint, entering into negotiations with al Qaeda through the ulema also  will create problems in Washington for the Saudi regime. The United States would not take a favorable  view of attempts to placate the militants; it already is suspicious of support for jihadist ideology within both the Saudi  government and society and would view any negotiated settlement as a further strengthening al  Qaeda. The   militant Islamist movement understands that Riyadh is stuck between either appeasing Washington -- at the  expense of domestic  support -- and shoring up its domestic credibility, angering Washington as a consequence. In  fact, this is exactly what al Qaeda has been trying to achieve -- a break between the two capitals. So, while it has  no direct interest in talks with the regime, it stands to gain from them by making the government look bad in  Washington.

 Both King Fahd and his brother, Interior Minister Prince Nayef, vowed a tough
  response to al  Qaeda following the  Nov. 9 car bombing: Fahd warned that the militants would bedealt with by an "iron  fist" and that  "retaliation will be stiff." Nayef, reacting to the offer of mediation from the ulema, said, "We can  talk to them  [militants] only with the gun and the sword."

  However, the government's room for maneuver is limited.
Al Qaeda and the regime are rivals in a contest to portray themselves as the true  upholders of  the kingdom's puritanical Wahhabi ideology, which has been a pillar of the monarchy since the founding of the  state. The  government has been known to prefer pragmatism over ideology whenever the need arose in  order to maintain power, and al Qaeda has yet to acquire the power necessary to bring its ideological objectives  to fruition. Thus, both sides are locked in a battle for the hearts and minds of the ulema, who influence the masses.

  The common thread binding all three is Wahhabism. Saudi security sources tell Stratfor that  whenever a new tape from Osama bin Laden is broadcast on satellite television, the streets empty as people rush home  to listen. While it is difficult to quantify the level of support for al Qaeda in the kingdom, this does suggest that  that sympathy for the jihadists runs deep within Saudi society. Stratfor also has learned through a  variety of  other sources within the kingdom that though a significant number of ulema may publicly express  support for  the regime, they  privately agree with the bin Laden and al Qaeda concerning the nature of the regime. They  disagree, however, in their respective approaches to dealing with the government.

  Cognizant of this dilemma, the regime is proceeding with caution: The more
it cracks down on al  Qaeda, the more the masses see it as doing the bidding of the United States. At the moment, it appears that the  pendulum of  Islamic legitimacy in the kingdom is swaying toward the militants. The monarchy,  therefore, has  tried to religiously upstage the jihadists, pointing out that the most recent bombing was an attack against Muslims;   that al Qaeda has shown no regard for the sacred month of Ramadan and that it also engages in the process of  booby-trapping copies of the Koran. These efforts to destroy al Qaeda's religious credibility among the Saudi  public do not seem  to be working, so the regime has agreed to the path of dialogue -- and apparently
is including the  ulema in that effort in order to exploit to its own advantage the debate within the religious class over how best to bring about an Islamic reformation.

But again, the maneuver is risky: It is quite possible that the ulema interested
 in acting as  go-betweens are trying to leverage their influence in both the government and the militant camps in order to  advance their own concerns. The leader of this group of ulema, Safar al-Hawali, until recently was himself
an  outspoken critic of the regime -- a stance that earned him a prison sentence from 1994 to 1999. He was released on  the condition that he would tone
down his rhetoric against the regime. Since then, he has gone fro being a
critic of the regime to becoming a mediator with the militants -- a role he also played earlier this year, when he secured  the surrender of  militant Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi al-Ghamdi, who was wanted in  connection with the  May 12 triple bombings in Riyadh.

  According to the BBC, at least one participant in the current mediation efforts
  claimed that the  militants were willing to negotiate on two conditions: immediate reform of the judicial system and cessation of   the government's  operations against them.
  Considering al Qaeda's goal of the ousting the Saudi monarchy, these do
not appear to be the demands of the militants. Al Qaeda's agenda does not include a negotiated settlement. Thus, these demands are  more likely those
 of the ulema like Safar al-Hawali, who has adopted an approach of gradual reform to solving the  kingdom's political  problems.

  In any case, the mere fact that the ulema class has influence with both the House of Saud and al  Qaeda highlights the complex relationship between
the three groups, which explains the monarchy's  predicament. The House
 of Saud wants to leverage its influence among the ulema to salvage its Islamic
 credentials  and delegitimize the militants. Conversely, al Qaeda is trying to
pry away the ulema class from the regime by  emphasizing the monarchy's Islamic illegitimacy. This bidirectional pull is bound to catapult the ulema into
a  position from whence they can advance their own corporate

  * Ulema are the community of legal scholars of Islam and the Sharia.
Copyright 2003

  Who is militant Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi al-Ghamdi & why should
 any one care?

Searched the web for Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi al-Ghamdi .
Results 1 - 9 of about 18. Search took 0.36 seconds.
What is it ? This Criminal is a Dead Man Walking Or a Dead Hero to the al Qaeda ? What?!

... Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi, one of the wanted (by) security ... Prince Mohammad
bin Nayef bin Abdul Aziz," the ... man, also known as Ali al-Ghamdi, was number ...

... terror network. The number two, Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi al-Ghamdi,
surrendered to Saudi authorities last month. Dandani and ...

... The number two, Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi al-Ghamdi, surrendered
to Saudi authorities last month. Ten people on the list ...

Do a Search at
... Saudi Arabia cho bi?t k? ch? muu v? t?n công kh?ng b? th? dô
Riyadh Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi còn g?i là Ali al-Ghamdi dã ra ...


  International... The most wanted Islamic militant in
 Saudi Arabia blew himself up... Number two  on the  list,
 Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed al-Faqaasi al-Ghamdi,
urrendered to Saudi ...

... terror network. The mastermind, Ali Abdul Rahman Saeed Al-Faqaasi Al-Ghamdi,
surrendered to Saudi authorities last month. Ten people ... www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=5335

  most links are useless but there is some stuff of use on this page...

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